Generational conflict (old v. young) seems to be one of the strongest themes in Thomas Paine's writing. Since there are more generations alive now than ever before (about 5 living generations in U.S. right now), is generational conflict becoming, or has already become, the main source of division in American society today? If this is true, you would have to consider to what extent do other forms of conflict like class conflict (rich v. poor), ethnic conflict, racial conflict, gender and sexuality conflict, all fall under conflict between older and younger generations?
A lot of Paine's writing is devoted to attacking tradition which is obviously related to conflicts between generations. For conservatives, traditions are very important, in fact the term 'conservatism' itself comes from conserve, as in conserving or preserving traditions. The founder of 'conservatism' is Edmund Burke who was writing during the French Revolution which he condemned because it marked the ultimate destruction of tradition (remember the French even restarted their calendars so much did they want to wipe out traces of the past). Paine's book The Rights of Man, part of which is included in the coursepacket was written directly in response to Burke. For radicals like Paine, the past was only holding us back since the past for them was just a history of oppression and domination by kings and other forms of hereditary succession. The American Revolution in the eyes of radicals marked a break from the past, in a literal sense, that breaking away from England was breaking away from the past. In many ways that may have been true in 1776 or 1783 or even 1789 (when the Constitution is ratified), but the past is a presence for people living in 2010, so what kind of relationship should people have to the past and to traditions today?
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I dont think there is reason to let go of the past because to reject your past is denying part of yourself. If a country denies its past, it will undoubtedly run into the same problems from the past in the future. I believe countries should treat troublesome histories with a "forgive but never forget" ideal in mind. You can get over and make strides past the past, but to forget it or even go as far as denial is foolish. History holds lessons that can't always be taught via word of mouth. Sometimes to look back and see the mistakes of our ancestors and all those inhabitants before us is humbling and enlightening. Not only can a country find their ways around repeating histories problems, but also can move towards repeating histories triumphs and staying strong like those in rebellions and revolutions. People should have a respect and admiration for the past and its traditions today, because that will move us all to a better tommorow. (I Apologize for the Extreme cliche)
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion many in today's society should hold a relationship with the past that helps them to have a better comprehension of previous events in history and how we can avoid or limit the amount of consequences we can be placing upon ourselves. As the old saying goes , those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. This quote holds much truth to it due to the way politics and government domestically and internationally have placed many of its traditions and values under greed and monetary value.
ReplyDeletei just feel like saying something in general here i dont think anyone in the world can trully be 100% independent anyway (unless you're talking about what you want to persue in life in terms of career), we're all interdependent that's what humanity is all about. We all do services for each other and help each other survive when it comes to others getting food for us and making our clothes while we give them money. There's is always a service to BE done and a service to be given....
ReplyDeleteanother thing about Paine, there is tradition for a reason in my opinion and its usually not a "bad" thing so why does he attack it? traditions come from things that have happened in the past and the past is why we are at the present
just felt like commenting dont know who will read it lol :P
Well i totally agree with karin. i think that we are not and we will never be truly independent.Even thought we may think that we are, we are not because there is always something in which we depend from another person.Society is based on interdependence because not body can leave in their own.On the other hand what i think about our relation with the past is that everybody is strongly connected with it even if they want it or not. we can never forget our past because today we are a result of what we once were in the past.rejecting the past is like rejecting our own origin.Remembering our past help us so that we can not make the same mistakes that ours ancestors made.
ReplyDeleteI think that Jefferson was a little misleading because in the constitution he wrote lines where he did not mention women or black men. He wrote "all men", not "all humans". I do think that for the time that it was written, it was a good idea because he was trying to be as innovative as possible. When it comes to being independent and interdependence, i think we cannot. I think we lack social maturity and technology to be completely independent. Technology would help us not rely on grocery stores, but that technology does not exist. I think that to a certain extent back then, they were a little more independent because they were farmers and such and did not rely on others.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to the generational conflict i do not think there is one. I think that there is a lack understanding but that everyone thinks differently about things.
I believe people should keep certain traditions from the past as well as start new ones.If you think about it, there is no way people(like the french with their new calenders) could make new traditions without looking at certain aspects of the past!
ReplyDeleteAs far as how the United States can be independent and interdependent at the same time is by not associating any type of dependence with other countries, and only relying on people within the country.
So it seems most of you so far are arguing for a strong connection to the past for many reasons: not to repeat the same mistakes, to give people a sense of order, or even to draw strength by feeling like you are part of something bigger than yourself. But while there are many good things, still what about the bad things? Racism and other forms of prejudice are passed down through history as well. Remember Paine's complaints about hereditary succession, there's an element of the past there as well. Those who are on top now are there because of their relation to the past as well. To break from the past means to take away their right to rule which is the direct revolutionary consequence of this idea, and the reason why Paine is talking about it.
ReplyDelete@ Shanay: I like the way you resolved the dilemma between independence and interdependence. But remember where interdependence comes from, the division of labor. The dividing up of the work tasks a society needs to survive is what makes us interdependent. Now in the days of the founders you could say we only need to rely on our citizens, but now its not so clear. If interdependence comes from dividing up labor, then arn't we interdependent on China (and many other countries) since that's where get a lot of our products from?
I think that when it comes to an individual independence we have to understand that everyone has its own right and that as everything in life it's limited. This is why we have to take into consideration that we should always respect others, because you never know when you might need then. Nobody can have or do everything in life. This is what i think that Jefferson wanted us to understand. Also in a way it's good that some how we might need others one day, because if things aren't how the are and everybody could do everything by themselves we didn't have no respect for others. It's a ironic live...
ReplyDeleteI think people should be close to there past and learn from them. People who learn from their past and can make a better future for themselves and others. I think that's the problem with people now-a-days. People don't study up on what their ancestors did to change this country. The hard-work and dedication they put on this country. The past teaches us that we can learn from these mistakes that our ancestors done.
ReplyDeleteCompare to the past (during Jefferson's time) we're more independent and also individuals because of the laws that were giving to us for all these years. In the past, only certain people can speak freely because of their social class. If someone in a social class says something that sounds right and intelligent, the "herd" would follow. Unlike the people in the present, we'll argue about opinions and facts based on others.